New truck not starting

gemarsh

Nebraska, where the Dusty Denali Diesel's roam.
Staff member
283
97
Nebraska
Year
2021
Long start happened 4 times, 2 times after driving several hundred miles stopped shut off engine then went to restart and it just continually cranks without firing. Luckily on the second attempt it did fire each time. The second two times truck had not run for over 8 hours tried to start and same long crank, waited a few seconds and then tried it fired up. Problem with the mechanics? Fuel system? Electrical?
I'm an old school mechanic, turned electrician, turned certified 3G welder, turned farmer. With that said, take this with a grain of salt...I would blame the electric side for problems. That would include software.

That is if you hear the fuel pump pressurize...that strange noise you hear under feet, when you open the door. At the pressure the 3.0 runs at, there isn't enough time to build 3 hundred bilgion psi when you hit the start button. I have not heard one failure to start on the second attempt, which would say the fuel pump pressurized.

I know it's awfully hard to hear noises after you get accustom to them. I don't hear the fuel pump nor the turbo actuator after shutdown any longer. It would be interesting if ones that are showing this error, could train their ear to make a observation if they hear the pump every time the door opens.
 

gemarsh

Nebraska, where the Dusty Denali Diesel's roam.
Staff member
283
97
Nebraska
Year
2021
The only reasonable explanation as to why the pump pressurizes when the drivers door is opened and not a programmed delay after pushing the start button, like when the glow plugs heat up, is the soccer mom types wanting a immediate response.

You know, the ones that drop it in gear before the starter has even stopped turning.

I don't know, is the 3.0 available with a key switch start model? If it is available, I haven't seen a post of the failure to start with that configuration.
 

rbdjr

Member
67
7
Year
2021
I agree with you, I believe no fuel is being injected into cyls, as it does not try to fire, with that compression and diesel fuel it should kick or try, it just spins , until timed out then fires instantly 2nd attempt, why so random?
 

NEVADADSL

New member
22
7
Year
2021
I'm guessing here, as I'm old school, but I'm wondering if some relay or fuel pump solenoid on the fuel side of things is not clicking in and/or fast enough during the initial crank? Or if the underhood fuse box bolts are loose and not supplying enough amperage during the initial crank to the fuel pump?

We don't have spark or the low fuel pressure, like the gas boys. They don't seem to have this condition.

Maybe this will be able to be remedied by software.
Actually I seem to recall reading on another forum incidences of some gas V8's having the same issue...
 

rbdjr

Member
67
7
Year
2021
There is a newer version by 2 days, but this could help? we will see, if anyone has had sensor shimmed please let us know if cured Crank no start?

#PIP5806C: Intermittent Extended Crank No Start And A Possible DTC P0341 Set - (Aug 16, 2021)
Subject: Intermittent Extended Crank No Start And A Possible DTC P0341 Set
Subject: Intermittent Extended Crank No Start And A Possible DTC P0341 Set
image

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Involved Region or Country
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Condition
Some customers may experience an intermittent extended crank or intermittent crank/no start, and may find DTC P0341 set. The vehicle will crank until it times out. The vehicle will start on second attempt. Stop / Start system is not affected by this condition.​
Cause
This may be due to a corrupt signal from camshaft position sensor to ECM.​
Correction
Carefully remove the camshaft position sensor and, using a borescope, inspect the camshaft trigger wheel coming into contact with the timing chain.
If the trigger wheel is coming into contact with the timing chain at any point, it will be necessary to replace the trigger wheel.
It will be necessary to roll the engine over by hand (up to two revolutions) to inspect each wheel segment. See the picture below:
Object Id: 5835734
Open In New TabZoom/Print
If the camshaft trigger wheel is not coming into contact with the timing chain at any point, Install a .5mm shim to the camshaft position sensor, p/n 12565102.
Below are reference pictures of a good trigger wheel and chain:

Object Id: 5883887
Open In New TabZoom/Print

1. Camshaft Position Reluctor Wheel
2. Camshaft Position Sensor

Object Id: 5883888
Open In New TabZoom/Print

1. Camshaft Position Reluctor Wheel

Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under the Bumper to Bumper and Emissions (E) coverage, use the following labor operation. Reference the Applicable Warranties section of Investigate Vehicle History (IVH) for coverage information.
Labor Operation​
Description​
Labor Time​
4088038​
Camshaft Position Sensor Exciter Wheel Inspection​
3.1 Hrs.​
*This is a unique Labor Operation for Bulletin use only.​

Version
3​
Modified
05/24/2021 – Created on.
06/18/2021 - Modified to include checking for debris on the cam position sensor.
08/06/2021 - Modified to include checking for chain interference and adding Camshaft position sensor shim and graphics.​
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.​
image
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION​

© 2021 General Motors. All rights reserved.
 

gemarsh

Nebraska, where the Dusty Denali Diesel's roam.
Staff member
283
97
Nebraska
Year
2021
Well at least GM is working on the situation.

I'm not an expert of anything, but I cannot comprehend how a sensor is seated in one position, gets a fail to start and the very next start attempt it always fires. Shaft sensors on the combine have a min/max clearance. Get them set to where they work and they keep working until a shaft bearing goes out.
 

BoostN

Administrator
Staff member
292
46
TN
Year
2021
I had my first oil change today.. the dealer I went to (local) had no clue what I was talking about.. said they haven't sold many 3.0L.. I had them document and I'd said I would be back when I saw a good fix/bulletin come out.
 

unhappycamper

New member
3
1
Year
2021
There is a newer version by 2 days, but this could help? we will see, if anyone has had sensor shimmed please let us know if cured Crank no start?

#PIP5806C: Intermittent Extended Crank No Start And A Possible DTC P0341 Set - (Aug 16, 2021)
Subject: Intermittent Extended Crank No Start And A Possible DTC P0341 Set
Subject:Intermittent Extended Crank No Start And A Possible DTC P0341 Set
image

from​
to​
from​
to​
Brand:​
Model:​
Model Year:​
VIN:​
Engine:​
Transmission:​
Cadillac​
Escalade models​
2021​
All​
All​
LM2​
All​
Chevrolet​
Silverado​
2020 - 2021​
All​
All​
LM2​
All​
Chevrolet​
Suburban​
2021​
All​
All​
LM2​
All​
Chevrolet​
Tahoe​
2021​
All​
All​
LM2​
All​
GMC​
Sierra​
2020 - 2021​
All​
All​
LM2​
All​
GMC​
Yukon models​
2021​
All​
All​
LM2​
All​

Involved Region or Country
North America​
Condition
Some customers may experience an intermittent extended crank or intermittent crank/no start, and may find DTC P0341 set. The vehicle will crank until it times out. The vehicle will start on second attempt. Stop / Start system is not affected by this condition.​
Cause
This may be due to a corrupt signal from camshaft position sensor to ECM.​
Correction
Carefully remove the camshaft position sensor and, using a borescope, inspect the camshaft trigger wheel coming into contact with the timing chain.
If the trigger wheel is coming into contact with the timing chain at any point, it will be necessary to replace the trigger wheel.
It will be necessary to roll the engine over by hand (up to two revolutions) to inspect each wheel segment. See the picture below:
Object Id: 5835734
Open In New TabZoom/Print
If the camshaft trigger wheel is not coming into contact with the timing chain at any point, Install a .5mm shim to the camshaft position sensor, p/n 12565102.
Below are reference pictures of a good trigger wheel and chain:

Object Id: 5883887
Open In New TabZoom/Print

1. Camshaft Position Reluctor Wheel
2. Camshaft Position Sensor

Object Id: 5883888
Open In New TabZoom/Print

1. Camshaft Position Reluctor Wheel

Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under the Bumper to Bumper and Emissions (E) coverage, use the following labor operation. Reference the Applicable Warranties section of Investigate Vehicle History (IVH) for coverage information.
Labor Operation​
Description​
Labor Time​
4088038​
Camshaft Position Sensor Exciter Wheel Inspection​
3.1 Hrs.​
*This is a unique Labor Operation for Bulletin use only.​

Version
3​
Modified
05/24/2021 – Created on.
06/18/2021 - Modified to include checking for debris on the cam position sensor.
08/06/2021 - Modified to include checking for chain interference and adding Camshaft position sensor shim and graphics.​
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.​
image
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION​

© 2021 General Motors. All rights reserved.
My 21 Sierra AT4 3.0 has this issue from day 1. It was at the dealer from 8/18 until yesterday. 8/30. They installed the shim but said the reluctor wheel was not "bent". I picked it up yesterday, drove it less than 2 miles nad BOOM, check engine light. Brought it back to the dealer, they plugged it in and said the code was a coolant issue and "was not related at all to them installing the shim". (smh) They reflashed the ECM which fixed nothing. They called the engineers at GMC and are still working on it as I write this. I bought this truck 4 weeks ago and it has been in the shop for half of that period. This is the first (and likely the last) GMC I will ever own which sucks, because I really liked the truck. I should've stuck with RAM. I'll be sure to update this thread as I learn more. I'm willing to bet this truck was built late on a Friday.... :(
 

gemarsh

Nebraska, where the Dusty Denali Diesel's roam.
Staff member
283
97
Nebraska
Year
2021
My 21 Sierra AT4 3.0 has this issue from day 1. It was at the dealer from 8/18 until yesterday. 8/30. They installed the shim but said the reluctor wheel was not "bent". I picked it up yesterday, drove it less than 2 miles nad BOOM, check engine light. Brought it back to the dealer, they plugged it in and said the code was a coolant issue and "was not related at all to them installing the shim". (smh) They reflashed the ECM which fixed nothing. They called the engineers at GMC and are still working on it as I write this. I bought this truck 4 weeks ago and it has been in the shop for half of that period. This is the first (and likely the last) GMC I will ever own which sucks, because I really liked the truck. I should've stuck with RAM. I'll be sure to update this thread as I learn more. I'm willing to bet this truck was built late on a Friday.... :(
Or a Monday or Tuesday after a 3 day weekend. 😇

Sorry for the joke. I was wondering about this shut down of the assembly lines for a week or longer. Do they shut down in the middle of the build, just like if power went out or do they finish what is started? I'm thinking it would be shut down with trucks in multiple stages of build.

If'n that is the case, I could see alot of production problems when the line starts backup and someone new takes over what was not completed.
 

rbdjr

Member
67
7
Year
2021
Let me know if the crank no start returns in your truck since having the shim installed. Mine has acted up 5 times in 5,700 miles,
 

unhappycamper

New member
3
1
Year
2021
Let me know if the crank no start returns in your truck since having the shim installed. Mine has acted up 5 times in 5,700 miles,
So I picked my truck up yesterday. The CEL is no longer on, They replaced a few sensors to repair the following codes: U1346, U060F & P2359. The shim they installed for the crank, no start issue was .5mm thick (like a manilla folder). All of that took them a total of 15 days but guess what?........3rd time starting the truck it cranked with no start. They have 1 more chance at this before I officially have Lemon Law rights. My advice to all of you is DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THE SHIM INSTALL!! I'll keep you all posted as to what kind of bright idea the engineers at GMC concoct next. Good luck..
 

BoostN

Administrator
Staff member
292
46
TN
Year
2021
Thanks for letting us know.. now as I forum owner of multiple brands, it happens to them all. I do hope you get your issues resolved.

Now back to the no start, I just come across a post on Facebook where a guy has a 6.2 GAS motor and it does the same thing.. so software for sure at this point!
 

gemarsh

Nebraska, where the Dusty Denali Diesel's roam.
Staff member
283
97
Nebraska
Year
2021
Reading of all the repairs trying to fix this, it's reading...not mechanical.

I am suspecting a relay is not energizing the fuel pump when the drivers door is opened.

That's my guess and I'm sticking with it.
 

unhappycamper

New member
3
1
Year
2021
Reading of all the repairs trying to fix this, it's reading...not mechanical.

I am suspecting a relay is not energizing the fuel pump when the drivers door is opened.

That's my guess and I'm sticking with it.
I agree 100%. I've noticed that mine has never had a no start issue during remote start or during the start/stop procedure. Both of which I assume the sequence is different than a normal "door open" sequence.
 

NEVADADSL

New member
22
7
Year
2021
Well, add me to the list. Today, at 724 miles, my 2021 Sierra LM2 had its first Extended Crank/No Start. Engine warm, after sitting for maybe 20 minutes. Started right up immediately after extended crank. As I was 3 blocks from the dealer I immediatly drove there and had the issue documented. Service manager claimed they had only seen one, and that they reflashed the computer (well, we all know what that accomplished.....) I did not leave my truck, but will have the update done when I get my free oil change at 1000 miles...
 
Last edited:

gemarsh

Nebraska, where the Dusty Denali Diesel's roam.
Staff member
283
97
Nebraska
Year
2021
Well, add me to the list. Today, at 724 miles, my 2021 Sierra LM2 had its first Extended Crank/No Start. Engine warm, after sitting for maybe 20 minutes. Started right up immediately after extended crank. As I was 3 blocks from the dealer I immediatly drove there and had the issue documented. Service manager claimed they had only seen one, and they reflashed the computer. Well, we all know what that accomplished.....
Sorry to read. Posts in this thread says the emc has been reflashed, 20 miles later and it still has the ECNS bug. Maybe your flash job is newer and will solve it.🤔
 

rbdjr

Member
67
7
Year
2021
Up to 6 times now.
I just turned 6200 miles and it happened to me for the first time today on a cold start from sitting overnight?
5 other times it was on a restart after about a 5 to 30 min a hot soak and then crank no start.
Almost like clockwork every 1000 miles it happens
 

Eastwood

New member
12
3
Up to 6 times now.
I just turned 6200 miles and it happened to me for the first time today on a cold start from sitting overnight?
5 other times it was on a restart after about a 5 to 30 min a hot soak and then crank no start.
Almost like clockwork every 1000 miles it happens
The camshaft trigger wheel appears to be bent on several 3.0 diesel motors that have been inspected. During the inspection from what I've read GM is adding a thin shim between the camshaft wheel and chain. GM isn't saying why the camshaft trigger wheels are bent. Just wondering if the camshaft trigger wheel is coming in contact with the chain causing the them to bend and this is why they're adding the shim? When they start production of the 3.0 Duramax next year I'll bet they'll add the shim on all new motors.
 

rbdjr

Member
67
7
Year
2021
The camshaft trigger wheel appears to be bent on several 3.0 diesel motors that have been inspected. During the inspection from what I've read GM is adding a thin shim between the camshaft wheel and chain. GM isn't saying why the camshaft trigger wheels are bent. Just wondering if the camshaft trigger wheel is coming in contact with the chain causing the them to bend and this is why they're adding the shim? When they start production of the 3.0 Duramax next year I'll bet they'll add the shim on all new motors.
Have you read this complete string Eastwood? Page back a bit
 
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